Comments on: Issues of Christian liberty and conscience

By: Jewelia Jacobs

Jewelia Jacobs — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:41:49 +0000

I think the verses and comments by the others make a good point: God has not called us to judge others, but to examine our own hearts and seek his guidance and wisdom for the personal decisions we make. I believe the question at hand isn’t about judging others, rather, as a church, is the focus and purpose of our meetings spiritual matters or earthly pleasures? When we have coffee break on Sunday mornings, individuals may choose to partake or not without feeling excluded for that choice. And we can experience the spiritual renewal offered during the service, unrelated to our own personal pleasures or vices. The worship service is the focus and name of our gathering, not coffee consumption.

At a pipe club meeting, since that is the focus of the gathering, only those who share in this pleasure may attend. I have no doubt that there are opportunities for deep sharing and connecting at such gatherings. However, it’s hard for me to believe it’s the role of a church to sponsor a pipe club. I don’t judge those who smoke or drink or eat sweets, but, like Chuck Penney, I’m disappointed when these things are the center of attention for our church gatherings.

By: jeff

jeff — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:40:54 +0000

Great thoughts everyone! I would like to respond to a few comments made by Mr. Ooms. When I speak of being “fully convinced in my own mind of what is right for me…”, I am directly quoting Romans 14:15 and 14:22. Also, this is not an argument, but rather a discussion. Rather than write an article and say that I know what is right for the masses, I have shared a basic exegesis of these passages from Scripture and have then invited the reader to reflect; the point was never to defeat someone theologically. So it was not ever meant to be an argument, but rather an invitation. Relationship is invitational and open-ended, and so is this article.

Thank you for all the thoughts! Keep them coming!

By: Chuck Cochran

Chuck Cochran — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 00:41:21 +0000

I will have to agree with many of the comments already made here. I really believe that freedom for some could be sin for another. It is very important to listen for the leading of the Holy Spirit when living out this thing we call life. If the Father says “don’t do it” that thing is sin for me. The problem lies in my trying to apply the Father’s “don’t” to someone else. If He wants others to refrain He will let them know.

By: Chuck Penney

Chuck Penney — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 23:48:53 +0000

What a fun topic that has been on my mind. This is great stuff!

For me; The question is “Right from Wrong through whose EYES?”

How do you know right from wrong?

1 Corinthians 8:9..13
Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

1 Corinthians 10:23-24, 31-32
“Everything is permissible”—but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible”—but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.
So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. Do not cause anyone to stumble.

Romans 14:21-22
It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.

Are any of our “rights” someones wrongs–or will they cause someone to fall? To me we can look at the mote in the eye perspective whenever anyone questions us doing something that we “just feel” no conviction about.

Is it more important to loose ourselves in order to advance the Kingdom?

Is it a question of liberty verses “Religion?”

Is it a question of feeling good because it is my right?

By now you may be thinking this guy is really old school hard line Christianity, to some degree that could hold true.

But the truth be known–none of these topics bother or offend me personally. I do believe there are many matters between the individual and God–in which God will provide direction–He does talk!

However, I am offended and disappointed when it becomes the center of attention for a gathering of believers–I have seen this especially with alcohol consumption being treated so casually and language flying off tongues where you just throw a dollar in the bucket to atone for your language. We could say that creating this type of environment could make a non-believer feel welcomed–not sure there is a Biblical perspective for that.

I like to think more on the line of;

1 Peter 2:11-12 Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul. Live such a good life among the pagans that though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day He visits us.

For each of us in our individual relationships with God–if we ask–He will speak. No need to ask anyone else if something is right or wrong, all we need to do is go to His Word and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to us and give us wisdom.

Maybe the bigger question; “would we say it, do it, or think it” if Jesus was sitting right next to us–ohhhhh He is every minute of the day.

By: Russ Ooms

Russ Ooms — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 21:39:19 +0000

Great article! A couple of things that come to mind. Most of the things Paul refers to in Corinthians are not addictive in nature and dealt more with Jewish people taking offense at Gentile practices. Paul urges the Gentiles here to keep this in mind and do all things out of love. Secondly, it is not wise in an argument to at the end, try to deflect from the actual argument by drawing on larger issues that are outside the realm of the initial argument (e.g., sex slaves, hunger, etc.). Lastly, I would at least want to stop and examine the statement that was made, “but I am convinced in my own mind of what is appropriate for me.”. On the surface this sounds ok within the context of the argument but we must never forget Jer. 17:9 that “our hearts are desperately wicked, corrupt above all things.” Simply put, recognizing the inherent deception wihin our own sin natures, we should at the very least place on a check on being convinced in our own minds – we may be deceived and not know it. With all that said, I would agree that a pipe-smoking club may be a way to invite others in, introduce them to the grace and love of our Lord Jesus and see them take the first steps of faith, after all, Paul himself became ‘all things to all people’.

By: Eric Barr

Eric Barr — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 15:10:52 +0000

Great subject! Thanks for talking about this.

By: Jonathan Tankersley

Jonathan Tankersley — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 02:30:05 +0000

As I’ve read through the New Testament, and realized some of the problems that were dealt with in Jesus’ time, as well as in the early church following his ascension, I’ve realized that the Bible is just as relevant today as it was when it was written. The specifics may have changed, but the spirit behind the ideas spoken then still apply today. We may no longer have people running around telling us that we need to not eat meat in order to be good Christians, but we still have plenty of people that want to impose their own ideas of what salvation is really about on everyone around them.

One piece of scripture I found sometime back speaks to Christians on both sides of the argument in regards to whether what we consume is sinful or not. Romans 14:3 says, “Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don’t. And those who don’t eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them.”

If you look at this Romans passage in relation to what Paul said in 1 Corinthians, I would say that the principle breaks down to this… If you know that has issues with drinking or smoking or whatever the thing may be, don’t rub it in their face by doing those things in front of them. And on the flip side, if you take offense at someone’s drinking or eating habits, and happen to see someone doing this thing that you disagree strongly with, don’t go off making judgmental comments to them or about them. I’d compare the bickering about these trivial issues to that of young siblings bickering with one another and trying to draw mom and dad’s attention to the flaws of the other… I think it’s important to remember that God is the judge in the end. We should be focusing more on holding one another up, rather than trying to tell people that they are wrong.